How do you define having been to a country?

Hi

I just wanted to  see what peoples views are on defining if you have 'been' to a country.

If you fly from the UK to Kenya for example but then get another flight directly out to Tanzania without leaving the airport, have you been to Kenya?

If I am travelling by train within europe but do not get off the train and pass through several countries - have I been to them?

What If i drive specifically to Andorra, Liechtensten, or Monaco but never get out of the car, Have I been there? 

Do you have to have spent a certain amount of time there or have spent money? I have been to several countries but have never spent the night there but have definitely 'been'.

 

What do you think? 

 

Lots of people would define

Lots of people would define having been to a country as staying the night, but then of course almost no-one has been to, say, the Vatican City.  I have been on several day trips to Bruges, Belgium and yet people tell me I have not been there. I define having been to a country as having stood on a county's soil (or being in a vehicle which was on a country's land) or having been in or on a river that belonged to that country. I do not, however, count territorial ocean water or airspace, but I would count a connecting flight.

Well I havent spent the

Well I havent spent the night in Luxembourg, Uruguay, Paraguay, Vatican or Monaco but I have definitely been to all of them.

I'm not sure I would count the airport thing as you are technically on the wrong side of passport control so not legally in the country despite being within its borders. I think 'legally' standing on the soil is something I would regard as confirmation and thus maybe being on a train or bus or car through a country doesnt count as having been as you have in no way interracted with it.

The way I see it, wherever

The way I see it, wherever I am I must be somewhere.  For example, when I go to Bruges we drive over French soil to get there.  At the start of the journey I am in England, at the end I am in Belgium, but in the middle I am not nowhere- I am in France.  If the car were to stop for petrol, would that make the France trip more legitimate?  That is what I use the "In transit" ticks for on my profile page: just travelling through a country without doing anything else.

On the other hand, I also count returning to my home country as a "visit", which some people seem to find controversial, but its what I feel is right.  I have seen others on this website who do this, but the whole concept of a visit varies from person to person.

Have I been there?

I think you've been there if you travel through by car or train - you probably see more of the country than someone who's spent two weeks in an all-inclusive hotel and never left the resort. What does it matter if you didn't spend the night there? I think it is up to the individual how they count it - it's not a competition after all.

 I don't personally count countries where I've just transitted in the airport and all I saw was the Duty Free shops.

Travelling through a country by road

I would have thought that most people on this site would try to get out of their vehicle, if only for a few minutes, while they were travelling through a country, because they are interested in travel. It would make me feel that I had a more genuine claim to have visited that country. Otherwise it is hardly any different to flying over a country.

My Explanation....

I think that if you have spent time in that country - even if just a day trip - that it should count on at least some level. In Europe for example there are lots of countries close together - come families can take a day trip and go to a different country and still be back home the same day. I guess it also depends on what you do. If you only go straight from the airport to the hotel then back again - I wouldn't cound that as being in the country because you wouldn't get a chance to acctually "see" the City/Country/Culture/ECT. that way. Even something as simple as going to a local market in poorer country can be a big eye opener for someone say from USA or England - something new which gives you the "feel" of being somewhere new.

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Airside / immigration.

I flew from Toronto via Miami to San Salvador. I had to clear US immigration whilst 'still in Canada'. I wasn't even in the country (US) physically but was legally. Didn't go through immigration at Miami and still had visa waiver green card when I arrived in El Salvador. Tried to handed same upon return to Miami. "Hand both in when you leave".
I entered both visits as 'in transit'. If a new country this would show up as so.
As has been stated previously it's not not a competion, there's no prize to be won so doesn't really make any difference what somebody 'claims' they have done.
Keep on ticking.

Passport control does not make for a visit

The problem with this standard is that sometimes you clear immigration in a country without actually entering the country. For example, if you fly from the USA to Austria via Frankfurt, you clear passport control in Germany (as it is the first point of entry into the Schengen Zone) even though all you're doing is getting on another plane. Similarly, international transit through Canada or the USA involves clearing customs (and sometimes, even reclaiming your luggage and entering the landside area).

My standard for international flights is that if I leave the airport premises (or take a subsequent domestic flight entirely within the confines of the country, even if it involves an international connection on the other end), I will consider myself having visited that country. If I don't leave the airport, even if I am fully through customs and otherwise free to leave, it is only an "in transit" visit.

As for trains, if I remain on the train the entire time it is in that country, it is an "in transit" visit. The country where I alight or disembark counts as a full visit.

Not everywhere is a country...

Interesting points (ValuJet, 7/9/08), but the main problem with this seems to be the assumption that everywhere is "in a country" in at least some sense, which makes it difficult for (say)  a passenger on a ship in international waters. (Even taking the ship's nationality gives a problem in that a unique place, as defined by longitude / latitude, in international waters, could then count as any 'country'). The more extreme example is astronauts on an international space station, or even the moon.

The corollorary of overflying a country and 'counting' that as a visit, also just feels unstatisfactory (though it's not clear whether that's how the contributor would regard it!). 

However, though I have some sympathy for the argument that if you're travelling on a train or in a car through a country but don't get out then you can't count it, personally I support this contributor's position, at least for when one is 'legally' within that country; I'm still struggling with the East Germany Question, involving trains which used to cross between West Berlin and the rest of what was West Germany / BRD, wherein boarding or alighting within East Germany was forbidden (and physically prevented by border guards!), yet one still got a transit stamp in the passport.

Finally, I tend to regard periods of time in one's own country - or, rather, the country in which one is ordinarily resident if different - as where one is when NOT doing any  visiting of countries! (OK, I've got one UK visit in my log, but only to get it included in 'places I have been'!)

 

I would not count flying

I would not count flying over a country, I just feel that somehow being in someway touching another country's soil means I am there, so I would count a visit as soon as a plane lands rather than after immigration control.  I have never actually had to have a connecting flight through another country, but an airport is my entire travel in Kentucky.

Airport's don't count if you stay airside

I would agree.  A visit to an airport does not count as a visit to the country, as you have not legally entered the country until you have passed immigration.  This is my measure - if I have passed through immigration, I count that as a visit. 

 

But this is why we have the option to tick "in transit".

When flying with a stop-over (no matter how brief the stop-ower might be) we enter the transit area of an airport in a country. Even though we have not passed the passport check-point, the transit area is not defined as international soil, (if I for instance commit a crime in the transit area I will be procecuted after the laws of the country in question and not international law, so per definition I must be in the country in question, even though I have not left the transit area!

Therefor the correct entry in the travel record must be a visit, but with at tick-mark in the "in transit" box.

I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter ;op

Yes, there wouldn't be an

Yes, there wouldn't be an "in transit" option otherwise. I thought it would be good if there was an option to ignore other people's transit ticks when viewing their maps.

Personally, if I get an in transit tick, I will endeavour to have visited that country properly as well, I personally don't have any countries with just transit ticks, although having been to Cincinnati Airport, I tick Kentucky off the US States list (no, the airport isn't in Ohio strangely enough)

You have to "do" something

My rule is that you have to actually do something in that country. Just going through immigration and heading back to catch the next flight doesn't count. See a sight. Have a meal. Meet some people. It doesn't have a time duration or a cost necessarily associated with it, but you have to actually do something for it to qualify in my book.

And I do not consider stopping at a gas station to buy fuel a visit if you're driving through a state or country. Sure, you did something, but not because of where you were.

I believe my shortest visit was one of Monaco, Vatican City or my most recent transit of London (6 hours plus or minus, though I went into town, rode the eye and then headed on to the next airport).

I sort of agree with that,

I sort of agree with that, but 'doing something' isn't precisely definable. There needs to be something specific to define whether you've been to a country.

Define 'having been to a country'

The way i see it, you have been to a country when you have interacted with the people and the environment of that country. Whether it be for 1 hour or 1 week, it doesn't really matter how long for. It's all about interacting ! Isn't that why we visit other countries. To sample other peoples way of life and the different environments that they live in.

My personal rule of thumb

My rule of thumb is this:

To really claim 'having been' in a country, you have to have passed passport control, and have eaten a meal OR slept there.

So, under that rule:

- Driving through doesn't count unless you stop for a meal (coffee is fine.)
- Airports don't count - they're really international space, and look very little like the country itself.

The idea here is that the whole point of 'visiting' a country is to experience it a little. Seeing it from a car is not experiencing it. Neither is transiting through an airport.

A friend of mine set this ground rule in our 'push pin contest'. We allowed for places you drive through, or airport transit, to be a 'transparent push pin'. PassportStamp uses the checkbox 'In Transit' for this.

Now, granted, this allows you, say, to cross the border to Russia, grab a Pepsi, and claim the entire landmass as having been 'visited'. That just goes to show the inherent limitations of 'counting' countries. What matters is the qualitative experience and the cultural discovery!

I would have thought that

I would have thought that most people on this site would try to get out of their vehicle, if only for a few minutes, while they were travelling through a country, because they are interested in travel. It would make me feel that I had a more genuine claim to have visited that country.
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I think

You can say you have been to a country only if you visit some of the well known place of that country.
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counting countries

I'm in the camp of, "you have to do something." We just went to Monaco for a couple of hours. We had a coffee in the harbor, walked up to the Prince's palace, and drove back to France. When we went to Andorra, we had lunch at McDonald's, walked through a couple of shops, and headed the other direction.

For example, I've transited through the Narita airport 5 times, but I don't yet count Japan on my country list because I haven't done anything in Japan besides spend several hours in the airport. I also count Hong Kong, Macau, and Puerto Rico as separate countries in my list; not everybody does.

What is the cost of the

What is the cost of the traveling charges for getting done of visa.

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What constitutes a visit to a country?

There has been discussion of how long a visit needs to be in order to count as a visit. I would suggest that duration is not the most important factor.

I have worked in India for three years, yet most of that time was spent in my employer’s premises or on the road between my office and accommodation, with little time available for sightseeing. When I did get the opportunity to get away for the weekend, I met travelers who were seeing much more of the country on their fortnight’s vacation than I was able to.

On the other hand, I was privileged to undertake a two-week tour of Sri Lanka, and learned something of the culture and political situation as the Sinhalese and Tamils of various backgrounds saw it for themselves.

I have one country on my list which some may consider as a transit stop only. I have been to Doha airport in Qatar on three occasions, but have never been through passport control and on into the country. On my travels I met an airport manager who had worked at Doha airport. When he asked me if I had been to Qatar, I mentioned my fleeting experiences of walking on the tarmac at the airport, sensing the hot, arid climate, and being aware of the strict Islamic culture, as evidenced by warnings not to bring alcohol into the country.

We discussed what constituted a visit to a country and, as he put it, “Well, you certainly weren’t anywhere else when you walked on the tarmac there.”

On a rather serious note (a matter of life & death in fact), we might consider the 1976 “Raid on Entebbe” in Uganda. Palestinians hijacked an Air France aircraft and ordered it to Entebbe in Uganda. There, the Palestinian hijackers separated the Israeli and other Jewish passengers from the rest. The Israeli Defense Force, fearing the worst for their citizens, mounted a rescue operation, during which all the Palestinian hijackers, three hostages and an estimated 22 to 45 Ugandan soldiers were killed. All but one hostage (who had been taken to hospital and was later killed by the Ugandans) were rescued. The Israelis suffered one fatality: the commander of the operation Col. Jonathan Netanyahu (the brother of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu). Col Netanyahu arrived on an aircraft which did not have permission to land, he commanded the operation on the ground from a position near the aircraft and was identified by a Ugandan sniper as being in a position of authority and was targeted by that sniper. The entire operation lasted just 53 minutes from the time the Israeli aircraft landed until take-off. If Col Netanyahu’s visit to Uganda did not count as a visit, as he never went further than the tarmac near the aircraft, never passed through immigration and was evacuated within one hour, we may ask how the hell he ended up getting shot dead by a Ugandan soldier!

On a lighter note, I have seen the coastline of Malta; I do not claim to have visited Malta as I was somewhere else at the time – on the deck of a ship sailing by. I have seen Russia, but I do not claim to have been there as I was somewhere else – on an aircraft, looking out of the window!

I do include Qatar as a country that I have visited because, in the words of my acquaintance, I certainly wasn’t anywhere else when I was walking on the tarmac there!

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote, “You have your way, I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, the only way – it does not exist.” That philosophical comment may apply to this issue. It is for each of us to decide whether we have truly had an experience of visiting a country.

If you are planning to shift

If you are planning to shift your house,obviously you will shift your vehicle also.This work can be done easily by car transport companies.

Having been to a country

Having been to a country it's when I managed to do something productive for that country, in my opinion. for instance I have managed to donate a car when i was in the States. I have been to a nice campaign of donating cars and I was amazed by how many people decide to donate their cars and save the planet from pollution. It encouraged me to start such thing at home in France too.

My opinion

In my opinion you can not say you have visited to a country unless you stay there or visited some nice places of the country.
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Basically your country of residence

Basically your country of residence is where you have been normally residing since last 3 years. If you have been in another country for any purpose like education, business or short-term employment this is not going to change your country of residence.
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Qualifying Countries

In our non competitive (not) family group only countries which are members of the UN are acceptable, which means that "territories" such as England, Scotland, Wales etc only count as Great Britain, this even extends to Gibraltar,Jersey, Guernsey and other overseas UK territories. We only count visits which are over four hours long, once we are land side. Airport transit stops would not count., driving through the country would, but sailing through International waters or flying above a country would not.

Standing is being

I couldn't agree more. If you stand on the soil of a foreign land for a month or a moment, you have "been" there.

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Didn't need it, but there is a US Customs and Border Patrol office in the cruise terminal in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Standing Is "Being"

I believe that if you've touched the land of a country, you've been there. The definition of "been" is the past tense of "be". And to "be", all you have to do is exist. So I think that if you "exist" on the land of a country, you've "been" there.

What should I know before

What should I know before traveling to Kenya?

Antony - Auto